Comments on: Two New Fuel Cell Cars Debut at L.A. Auto Show

By: Philip Block

Philip Block — Mon, 23 Mar 2009 18:20:37 +0000

I have a question that could be answered by the engineers at Toyota and Honda. Is the energy returned to the system by the generators equal or exceeeded by the energy used to haul the generators and the associated equipment around (assuming that separate generators are being used for braking and not the drive motors)? It appears that a lot of braking would have to be done to have the returned energy equal or exceede the energy spent to carry the additional weight. This would apply to any type of electric car–battery or Fuel Cell. Now, if the drive motors are being used as the generators when braking, then it is only the weight of the additional equipment associated with braking that would be considered. In cities where there is usually a lot of breaking, regenerative braking may be useful but on the open road, it may be questionable. Again, the engineers are the best ones to answer these questions.

By: Ford Ray

Ford Ray — Sun, 15 Mar 2009 21:00:50 +0000

Of course Philip is right. Energy in must equal energy out and that must include losses withing the system. There must be enough hydrogen onboard beteen refills to provide all the enrgy in, including losses to inefficiencies. However, there is a case for generators on the axles. Technology already existing on the Prius that uses ‘generators’ on the axles to provide most of the braking function, recapturing that energy and diverting it to the batttery.Honda’s two current producion models have a range of over 300 miles runing on hydrogen, so we are getting there!

By: Philip A. Block

Philip A. Block — Wed, 14 Jan 2009 18:37:16 +0000

Carl, if I read your comment correctly, you are breaking the law of the conservation of energy and have established a perpetual motion machine. It appears that you have not taken into account the energy lossses through your system. What you are saying is that you can have a generator charge a battery that will run a motor to run the generator. This idea has been around for over a hundred years and usually frustrates those that try it and cannot understand why it will not work. As to your comment about magnet generators. Magnet generators, or magnet motors, are motors that have had the stator windings replaced with permanent magnets. This makes them more efficient (as there is no stator winding to draw current), durable, and somewhat cheaper. They, like all motors, still have windage, friction, and I (current) squared R (resistance) losses that make them less than 100% efficient. D.C. (direct current) motors are not the best motors for durability and maintenance for electric automobiles. With the development of solid state devices, there are motors available for mobile platforms, ie. fork lifts, autos, etc. that are more maintenance free and reiliable. Also remember, the more weight one puts on the platform, the more energy is needed to move it. That is why the hybrid (ICE/motor/generator/battery) is questionable. Take that same car and throw out all that weight and watch the gas mileage go up. I suggest you go back and do some more reading on your subject and do some number crunching. I hope this has been of some help to you.

By: Carl R Rushton

Carl R Rushton — Sat, 27 Dec 2008 22:46:39 +0000

Through water electrolysis (Avalence LLC) this system produces hydrogen on board the vehicle. Hydrogen mixed with Oxygen through a PEM fuel cell stack (General Motors) creates electricity to power a 1st stage motor and magnet generator to power the main batteries this eliminates the combustion engine. Using magnet generators on the rear axels the car produces power through motion.
First use the hydrogen generator which produces hydrogen through electrolysis. Produce enough hydrogen on board the vehicle to power a small stack of PEM fuel cells to power the first stage motor which powers a DC magnet generator. This is much like a Dewalt re-chargeable drill. The fuel cell powers the 18Volt rechargeable battery and the size of the magnet generator can be sized to recharge the main batteries in 3-6 hours. Secondly, Design the vehicle with front wheel drive electric motors, leave the rear wheels to attach their axels to magnet generators so when you drive you are producing power directly to the front wheel drive electric motors or to the main batteries. After a 50 mile commute to work the main batteries should be fully charged and if not the 1st stage fuel cell magnet generator will top of the main batteries for the commute home. This system of power loss and recovery should provide enough hydrogen and electricity for a power system that could take you across country on water, air and a small amount of hydrogen.
Please find below the components required and are in production.Hydrogen Generator by Avalence LLC http://www.avalence.com/products/default.asp Electric Motors at the wheels typical of all electric carsPEM Fuel Cell care of GM http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/fcv_pem.shtmlDC magnet generators, been around for years.Carl R Rushton Expired patent #60/716,613

By: folu okusaga

folu okusaga — Sat, 13 Dec 2008 11:40:08 +0000

Monash universities modelled a proton exchange membrane fuel cell using direct methanol. the cell seems to be one of the cheapest i’ve seen. its as efficient as any other. the modelled cars are awesome but i think its safer to use hydrgen rich compounds as sources rather than using it directly

By: Jennifer

Jennifer — Mon, 01 Dec 2008 21:00:21 +0000

Volkswagen also showcased three fuel cell prototypes - the Tiguan HyMotion, a compact, sporty SUV; the Touran, a compact minivan; and the Passat Lingyu, a sedan designed for use in China. Both the Tiguan and Touran utilize a VW-developed high temperature fuel cell stack while the Passat Lingyu’s fuel cell was developed by Shanghai Volkswagen with help from Tongji University.

http://www.media.vw.com/article_display.cfm?article_id=10428