Comments on: When a fuel cell isn’t a fuel cell

By: Jay Vreeland

Jay Vreeland — Fri, 19 Dec 2008 18:42:05 +0000

to make it more difficult the amount of leanness permitted by the small amount of hydrogen is insufficient to avoid increases in NOX levels

By: Jay Vreeland

Jay Vreeland — Fri, 19 Dec 2008 18:37:33 +0000

Lord protect us from people qwho know just a little thermodynamics. thermo is the study of heat and work. HHO is not about creating new energy..its about changing the fraction of total energy that goes into work vs heat. If you burn a gallon of gasoline in an open field viirtually all the 1180000 BTUs goes into heat..If you set it off under a rock or in a high compression engine some appreciable fraction ends up as usable work. Hydrogen when introduced with gasoline into an internal combustion engine has been shown to affect kinetics of burning, engine timiong, spark advance, and thermal efficiency. by a few percentage points. In the NASA study and others effects are seen at 2-6% by weight additions (H2 to gasoline). The effects are particularly noticeable in the lean burning region and generally related to improvements in misfiring.. Unfortunately at normal highway gasoline consumption rates of 2-3 gallons/hr, the amount of hydrogen generated at 100 liters/hr (8 grams)only amounts to perhaps0.1% by weight. The actual studies by the Rumanian investigators (Chiriac et al) showed a measurable beneficial effect only at very low loads where the actual gasoline consumption was of the order of 0.5 gal/hr and hence the ratio of H2 to gasoline approached 0.6 to 0.8%. which is virtually just above idle loads. It would thus appear some small % improvement in horsepower is available and if this improvement is above the parasitic loss required to run the genertor load for the HHO cell, there cpcould be small gains…but nothing of the order claimed by some. Hydrogen does have some unusual chacteristics but in the quantities released in HHO aare not all that impactful… .based on its known thermodynamic properties. The resort to the rather fanciful structure for “Brown” gas are necessary to put some sort of mystique into the claims, but the expected lifetime of the such free radical states is normally estimated at at most a few hundred molecular collisions or microseconds.

By: Jack

Jack — Sat, 11 Oct 2008 23:10:23 +0000

inexpensive fuel…

Do you learn this stuff in some sort of fancy school or something?…

By: eric krieg

eric krieg — Sun, 05 Oct 2008 03:27:55 +0000

I have a site examining the claims of HAFC atwww.phact.org/hafc.htmThe people promoting it have evaded my open call for independent validation for about a year now. The ex convict promoting it, Dennis Lee has been selling questionable super high mileage solutions for 6 years now and promising free electricity machines for 30 years. Buy HAFC AFTER getting credible independent validation from trusted sources. Till then, be on the look out for many different high mileage MLM scams.eric krieg

By: car fuel saving devices

car fuel saving devices — Mon, 22 Sep 2008 01:01:56 +0000

car fuel saving devices…

It is great to see a great post that is truly useful and informative. Keep them coming….

By: Philip A. Block

Philip A. Block — Wed, 17 Sep 2008 03:49:21 +0000

I’m not quite sure what Max O. is saying in his commentary, but If I am interpeting him correctly, he claims that he is getting rwo pounds of flour out of a one pound sack. I cannot dispute his claim of increased mileage– but his claim that it costs less to drive? First place, the average ICE is only about 15% efficient. So, 85% of the additional energy, H2, goes off as heat (85 cents of every dollars worth of H2). The best over the counter electrolyzer, (converter of H2O to H2 and O2) is very questionable as to its efficiency. If you are using tap water, the gallon of gasoline will be way cheaper. I won’t go into why, but leave it for your homework. And, unless you have found a way to break the laws of physics, it takes more energy to separate the water into its constituent gases than you can get out of the resulting H2. This is one of the problems that researchers all over the world are working on, finding a way to manufacture H2 that has a reasonable cost.

By: Max O.

Max O. — Mon, 15 Sep 2008 22:08:15 +0000

I got a kick out of some of the comments, people are so directed by what they here or read without first doing the scientific research themselves. After much research and investigation on car manufactures and why they do not use HHO for fuel it make all the more sense as to why they don’t use it. They loose billions of dollars and after traveling (full time RVer) in my RV, I have seen many modifications and working models of cars running on just HHO.
I have purchase my own HAFC kit and I do concur that it is a HHO production cell it does work and it increased my Hyundai, Elantras fuel to 60.8 MPG that is from 32 MPG or less. I must admit that I was not confident after the hot air of some articles that I read, but the equipment did work and I am very happy with the results. It now cost me only less to drive and with that I must say, action speaks louder than WORDS. By the way I originally heard about the HAFC on the news..
Ill tell you where I got my kit if interested. See ya! on the ROAD. Well check out for yourselves. http://preignitioncc.com/idealmileage

By: Philip A. Block

Philip A. Block — Thu, 11 Sep 2008 05:27:08 +0000

When I was a teacher, one of the most difficult tasks I had was getting students to do their homework. Why? Because people are lazy. They would prefer to listen to the non scientist/engineer, like Al Gore, then get on the internet and learn something about scientific principals and what Fuel Cells are really all about. Con artists sound good, so it must be true. The politicians and know-it-all talk show hosts are all experts on nuclear power. But not one of them has an engineering or science degree. And not one of them has answered one of my many emails on the subject. Wasting time on junk science is just that, wasting time. Do the homework and spend the time on sound ideas. Time is valuable. Thomas Edison
researched every project throughly before undertaking the project.
Someone once asked Lord Kelvin why other people did not do the things that T.E did. He said that he did not know except maybe because they were not Thomas Edisons (quote not exact wording). Ask yourself one question. Would you go to a doctor or lawyer that does not have a medical degree or law degree and a reasonable amount of experience?

By: Michael

Michael — Sun, 07 Sep 2008 21:06:24 +0000

I can appreciate your rancor toward the “‘Hydrogen Assist’ hucksters but, I think, giving dispassionate analysis of the differences between Hydrogen fuel cells and HHO would be more helpful. Any practical applications HHO should be explored; and either credited or discredited, based on their efficacy in a definitive practical application. Although my personal opinion is that its potential uses needs to be explored.

By: sm0kin

sm0kin — Mon, 01 Sep 2008 22:48:49 +0000

I have to agree with some points in your article I believe some to be very biased. Yes Hydrogen fuel cells and hho electrolysis are different and the name surely needs to be straightened out.. The reason people are feeding HHO into their intakes is to help combustion of gas/diesel and in doing so we are able to lean our engines out more then would normal. With leaning out our engines we are able to cut back on a small amount of gasoline produced. Nasa did a report about 30years ago on this. Here is a link to the paper.

http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19770016170_1977016170.pdf