Comments on: Seeing is Believing - Are We Missing Opportunities?

By: Qwester

Qwester — Sat, 02 Aug 2008 00:34:58 +0000

Modine in Racine said it at the end of the article above: “Right now, what’s in the way are the capital investments necessary to begin producing (fuel cells) at higher volumes . . . and the challenge has been making the technology affordable.” THIS, as with every new manufacturing endeavor, is the conundrum. Find the money. A 5 kw FC running off natural gas in every home during the summer would take the entire air conditioning load off the grid and level the natural gas annual usage rate. The is enough methane hydrate in the gulf of Mexico and off the coast of South Carolina to replace all of our oil usage for 1000 years. The idiot federal government put the development of methane hydrate in the hands of the oil companies so nothing is being done to use this almost free resource. Google methane hydrate. The only way to make fuel cell succeed is to make the application very widely applicable to get the volume up. If ammonia refrigeration cycle air conditioners were used they could use the reject heat from the fuel cell. All the current FC applications discussed on this forum combined are still too teensy-weensy to meet the volume requirements which will pull the money into the process.

By: Ed

Ed — Sun, 20 Jul 2008 01:28:30 +0000

I’m almost obsessed with the idea of individual fuel cells providing power to private residences and, hence, diminishing reliance on “the grid”.

I would love to demonstrate this technology but don’t know where to start.

Help?

By: John Trocciola

John Trocciola — Sat, 12 Jul 2008 10:34:24 +0000

I have been involved in the fuel cell industry for almost 45 years and have seen these “opportunities” or “photo ops”( remember the FC “house” and the FC golf cart?), as I call them, come and go and I think they can be a impediment to the industry for a number of reasons.
As I go about giving talks to the “public” rather than to fuel cell industry “insiders” the former frequently cites the phot ops as in fact”commercial” resulting in taking their eyes of actual commercial fuel cells like stationary units ( Verizon , 4 TimesSq, The new World Trade Center etc). That results in lack of public support for the purchase of real stationary fuel cells.For example why isn’t the public clamoring for fuel cell shelters in storm prone areas or for areas with poor electric grids?
With all due respect to fuel cell bikes, fuel cells at rock concerts, fuel cell Segayways etc while they catch the public’s attention are really not near commercial in any true sense.
If we gave more publicity in the media to actual COMMERCIAL fuel cell installations as opposed to “cutesy” demos/ photo ops etc the whole industry to would be far better off.

By: snbess

snbess — Fri, 11 Jul 2008 14:44:29 +0000

Perhaps this idea for providing fuel cells at fairs, music events, etc. is an opportunity for a person or organization to write a grant for education dollars to be spent in this way. The group could purchase fuel cells from fuel cell companies and provide this ongoing education. It is a great opportunity to educate “the masses”, yet it is something that fuel cell companies who are gaining market traction in their chosen markets do not have time or funding to do.

By: Sarah

Sarah — Thu, 10 Jul 2008 14:04:24 +0000

“People go to such events for the events, not for a lecture on the significance of a power supply.”

skeptic - I couldn’t disagree more!! Just look at things that have been going on in recent years at Lollapalooza, Virgin Fest, Live Earth, Bonnaroo, Coachella…I could go on and on…

Just a few examples from last summer’s Austin City Limits Festival: All food served on either compostable or biodegradable paper plates; biodiesel used in site generators to the highest extent possible; site enhancements powered by solar energy; use of high efficiency lighting(including LEDs) and replacing incandescent bulbs with compact fluorescent light bulbs (CFLs); incentive programs were in place encouraging patrons to participate in recycling program in place for plastic water bottles and beer cups; all corrugated cardboard broken down and recycled; portalets stocked with recycled toilet paper, handwashing stations had hand sanitizers rather than paper towels, used batteries from stage & production areas were collected for proper disposal; and patrons were encouraged to bring old cell phones and batteries for proper recycling.

Concert promoters KNOW that this is what people want and actually face ridicule these days for not having recycling bins, serving drinks in styrofoam containers, etc. This is an audience that is craving knowledge on how they can live their lives in a more sustainable way and would be incredibly interested in a lecture that is able to enlighten them on options of energy efficient power supply.

By: Jennifer

Jennifer — Thu, 10 Jul 2008 13:44:42 +0000

skeptic - that’s a good point about a fuel cell being a black box, I just believe our industry should be thinking outside that box. If you saw a row of generators at a concert all making noise and emissions except one that was quiet and clean, would that interest you? If a fuel cell was powering the popcorn machine at a state fair, don’t you think that would generate some chatter among people who might not follow the technology/energy industry that closely? But yes, we should be marketing to promoters and organizers for sure.

And who knows what jobs the concert goers at Bonnaroo or other events have in the real world - they could be a purchaser at a company that could be a future end-user, or some secret millionaire just looking for something to invest in. At state fairs, lawmakers and policy makers usually attend and make the rounds, it could help with legislation or awareness for sure.

By: fc-skeptic

fc-skeptic — Thu, 10 Jul 2008 07:23:50 +0000

A stationary fuel cell is a black box to the layman, and is no more interesting to a concert or festival attendee than a stack of batteries. People go to such events for the events, not for a lecture on the significance of a power supply.

Public demonstrations are not going to get the public to demand fuel cells. The only way that fuel cells will become viable commercial products for use at concerts and festivals is by offering the promoters of such events a better value proposition than other technologies. Market the fuel cells to the promoters, not attendees.

By: Sarah

Sarah — Wed, 09 Jul 2008 21:25:54 +0000

I think a big reason why you are having trouble getting fuel cell manufacturers to volunteer to exhibit their products is because companies in the renewable and alternative energy realm have resources that are stretched very thin.

In theory it is a good idea to educate the general public but ultimately the company must choose between educating a potential customer and some dude at Bonnaroo. At a time where fuel cells are only beginning to be adopted, resources must be spent in the area with highest potential for commercialization.

This really isn’t a solution to your problem, more of an explaination. I think support for continued high-visibility permanent demo projects is fundamental to public education. Govenment and industry must work together to make this happen.