1. July 14, 2008 @ 1:52 pm
   Where's the Beef? says...
   

   FC’s need to find the “Killer Application”. Auto companies if really interested in FC potential should start within their own industry building FC’s material handing equipment. But what has happened? The FC industry is all over the map. The key to success is focus. For the past 10 years FC community have been telling us that they are ready to commercialize in the next 2 years….DMFC (direct methanol fuel cells)were going replace batteries in everything from cell phones to laptops, ah, maybe next year… FCV only cost $1M each, and who really wants to drive around in a vehicle with a 10,000 + psi compressed fuel cylinder filled with hydrogen! I wouldn’t even want to drive with a pressure tank with nitrogen!
   The one application that seems to make some economic sense is FC powered fork lift vehicles, but where is the industry incentive to move this along. While every major auto maker is spending millions on FCV, why not just convert all of your in plant fork lifts to FC”s? Every auto manufacturer and their suppliers own millions’ of such vehicles. Fueling could take place as frequently as necessary with out building a hydrogen infrastructure. Just locate the hydrogen right outside the factory and fuel up as needed. No super high pressure tanks needed This would do several things , it would begin to do some real world reliability testing, it would start a commercialization ramp up, and would let whoever has the best technology (price, effectiveness, reliability, etc.) become the winner. If FC are ready for prime time…then focus on an application that makes both economic and technology sense. The gamble is….will FC’s succeed or fail in this relatively “simple” vehicle? If it fails then, millions of dollars and jobs can go on to something more useful.

2. July 14, 2008 @ 3:11 pm
   Jennifer says...
   

   Fuel cell forklifts make lots of sense - fuel cells last longer, take less time to refuel and eliminate need for battery change rooms or storage so that space can be utilized. Wal-Mart, GM, FedEx, Ace Hardware, Michelin and the DoD Defense Logistics Agency (DLA) are all using them in their warehouses right now in demonstration trials.

   This presentation summarizes a Battelle study focusing on near-term markets for fuel cells, including forklifts.

   Here is an article I wrote for IUV magazine.

3. July 15, 2008 @ 7:01 am
   John Trocciola says...
   

   This is the big issue I have always had with battery vehicles namely the “highway traffic jam”. As we know, battery vehicles have a very limited range so what happens if the driver runs out of battery power when the car is caught in a traffic jam? With a engine system based on a “fuel” the person in concept can get out and walk to get a can of fuel. With a battery system they need to call a tow truck to either recharge, which takes a long time, or tow the car to some rechargings station.
   That says if we had an true electric vehicle it also needs another engine system withan “on board ” fuel supply.

4. July 16, 2008 @ 10:06 am
   fc-skeptic says...
   

   Ever hear of a plug-in hybrid?

   Make mine a flex-fuel ICE. No need for an FC.

5. July 17, 2008 @ 6:17 am
   John Trocciola says...
   

   skeptic,
   I used the word “engine” ; I did not use the word “fuel cell”.
   My point is that an “all electric car” is doubtful; despite what Brian Williams says on NBC.
   Last time I checked GM’s “Volt” was touted as an all battery vehicle.

6. July 17, 2008 @ 1:47 pm
   Mr.Sexy says...
   

   Dear where’s the beef,

   Are you just using the same argument over and over again?
   Of course the industry is all over the map… Different companies are pursuing different applications? Consider the different companies and strategies found in the solar industry (passive solar, PV, and concentrated solar).

   You’re argument is weak and lacks focus. By your logic GM should abandon their FC work because YOU think material handling equipment is the way to go. Yeah, that makes sense.

   Someone please call UTC and ask them not to pursue stationary fuel cells because a few micro fuel cell companies haven’t met expectations…

7. July 19, 2008 @ 3:23 pm
   fc-skeptic says...
   

   “Fuel cell forklifts make lots of sense”

   Then why isn’t anyone making money selling them?
   Why does every company that is trying to sell them continue to lose money?
   Why is Plug Power laying off 25% of its work force?

8. July 19, 2008 @ 3:39 pm
   fc-skeptic says...
   

   “My point is that an “all electric car” is doubtful; despite what Brian Williams says on NBC.”

   What does Brian Williams have to do with anything?

   How many millions of multi-vehicle households are there in which one of the vehicles is never driven more than 100 miles a day?

   What’s so hard about being sure to plug the car into the charger when you get home each night? If people can’t do a simple thing like that than the situation is hopeless anyway.

   The idea that range is a real obstacle to rolling out millions - even tens of millions - of pure BEVs based on current battery technology is a red herring that serves no one but 1) automakers who want to keep building ICEVs for as long as they possibly can, and 2) special interests like the “hydrogen community”.

   http://greyfalcon.net/hydrogen4.png
   http://greyfalcon.net/hydrogen.png
   http://greyfalcon.net/hydrogen3.png
   http://greyfalcon.net/electriccars3.png

9. July 24, 2008 @ 4:28 pm
   John Trocciola says...
   

   The point is not what you do “… whn you get home at night” but “…what do you do when your battery is dead in a traffic jam on the local highway”
   Do you really think that the car companies would not be enthusiastic about a battery system that would stop people from worrying about the cost of gasoline and buy nore cars?

10. July 25, 2008 @ 8:25 pm
    Scott says...
    

    IMHO someone needs to do something!We need to get off of oil/gas. And we need to do something that is completely renewable fuel cell or something else. The hybrids still use at least some gasoline. The same with E85 and such.
    Personally, I think getting our power from something that we have so much of (sea water)is a lot better than drilling for oil. So it seems to me that until we can develop a solar cell that is powerful enough and batteries that don’t weigh a ton, fuel cells would be the way to go.
    Oh and I read somewhere that gasoline does explode sometimes.

11. September 2, 2008 @ 5:55 pm
    Richard P. Horwitz says...
    

    For the last 4 years I have been pushing a lead acid battery powered lawn mower. I would like to see an ethanol fed fuel cell that could be worn on a waist high belt (like an Army canteen) with an umbilical to the power line in the handle of the machine. This should also provide power for my hedge trimmer and chain saw.

    I saw something like this years ago when movie photographers went on location, they wore a belt with batteries (D cells?) stashed in the belt. They threw them away on return, adding to pollution. A fuel cell would last far longer and much cleaner.

12. September 4, 2008 @ 7:00 pm
    Philip A. Block says...
    

    All the talk about super batteries and the use of rechargeables is just plain nonscense. The battery companies have been trying for a hundred years to develop a battery that would be practicable for an automobile. The chemistry just isn’t there. Batteries, for all practical purposes has effectly peaked out and not a whole lot can be done to increase the power to weight ratio. Also, every time a rechargeable is charged, the amount of energy that the battery can hold decreases. It is like every time you fill your gas tank, it will hold one gallon less. The Fuel Cell acts like an ICE, as long as fuel is applied to it, it will continue to produce electrical energy and, at the jpresent time, it appears there is no limit to the improvements and increase in efficiency. Top that!

13. September 5, 2008 @ 5:44 pm
    Richard P. Horwitz says...
    

    I have spoken to people who give me a blank stare when I mention Fuel Cells. I wonder if anyone in the FC industry has ever considered creating an electric locomotive powered by an FC as a demo of the future and donating it to Steamtown Museum in Scranton, Pa.? Steamtown is a creature of the National Park Service and has a good number of visitors every year and would be a source of contact for people who are interested in rail transportation.

14. September 12, 2008 @ 4:19 pm
    Richard P. Horwitz says...
    

    I would like to see a fuel cell company contact the DR Power Equipment company. They make field equipment for large & small estates, such as lawn & leaf vacuum, chippers, log splitters, tractors, etc. The larger equipment is gasoline powered and usually shows the users wearing ear protection. A nice quiet fuel cell running powerful electric motors would be a step up for that company. They can be contacted thusly: http://www.DRpower.com. They are located in Vermont. I would bet that the folks who buy their equipment are not feeling much pain from the current economic downturn.

15. September 13, 2008 @ 8:42 am
    John Trocciola says...
    

    For many, many years we have heard the words :
    “donate”
    “demonstration”
    “fuel cell breakthrough”

    How about a few words like:
    “large fuel cell order”
    ” US Goverment issues large fuel cell putchase order”

16. September 13, 2008 @ 8:47 am
    John Trocciola says...
    

    There is a difference between “need” and “want”
    I would say a real need is for power during a large storm; perfect application for fuel cells.
    Fuel Cell Fork lift trucks That’s a “want”
    Fuel cell powered boats . That’s another “want”
    Fuel Cell lawn mowers. That’s a “Give me a break”

17. September 15, 2008 @ 8:59 pm
    Philip A. Block says...
    

    In an answer to Mr. Trocciola’s about FC fork lifts and boats. I spent quite a bit of time in th U.S. Navy rebuilding and servicing lead acid batteries. They are a hazard from beginning to end. The sulphuric acid is like an oil (maybe thats why it is often called oil of vitriol). It not only burns terribly, but dropped on the floor can be a neck breaker. The lead and its fumes–wonderful for lead poisoning. When a case is cracked and not noticed, the acid creeps like oil over everything, eating the heck out of it. Charging them is dangerous. The H2 fumes will send you to mars. Everything has to be rubber or lead lined for protection. Like all rechargeables, they have to be constantly changed. A real muscle builder and back breaker (the ones I worked with were liftable–the fork lifts batteries not so). The more you charge them, the more they have to be replaced. In industry, a special room for storage and recharging is required, with all the regulations that go with it. A person(s) must be properly trained to handle the charging and changing (what do you do if he/she is out sick?). The fork lift may be tied up for charging and if some one forgets to do so, the fork lift ends up being stranded somewhere. If you have ever been in business, you will see quickly the overhead for fork lifts. Now, install a fuel cell. No down time for recharging, except for refuling. No maintenance–an outside company can be contracted for that service (that would be a nice business to be in). Now, for boats. After the Navy, I spent a great deal of time servicing private boats. Batteries, batteries, batteries and all the screwball recharging systems that people can come up with. Also, when you want to drop anchor in a nice dark cove somewhere and spend a little time with your date, you have to keep a noisy generator going to make ice, etc. for the drinks. Now, replace the generator with a Fuel Cell. No noise, no fumes and a nice quiet evening. Again, a much safer system that reduces the chances of blowing the boat out of the water with the chrging system igniting the gas fumes. Fuel Cells for fork lifts, and boats a “want”? I think not.

18. September 29, 2008 @ 2:00 am
    How To Run A Car On Water says...
    

    How To Run A Car On Water…

    I agree with you on the first part. Digress a bit, if your visitors want to learn how to save on gas, they need to check out the new kit at my blog. Thanks!…

RSS feed for comments on this post. TrackBack URL