Just a few observations:

1) YES, HEVs have been in the same bill with Renewable energy tax credits. In fact, quite often. The bills we (and I mean a very large number of we(s)) have been trying to pass have been voted on almost a dozen times - most often including HEVs and almost always including various energy efficiency technologies.

2) I don’t think the fuel cell industry has been selling itself as “renewable”. But we do belong in the ITC portion of the US Tax Code. The Fuel Cell credit has been in the same section of the code as Solar since EPACT 2005 — along with Microturbines, by the way. This is not a section of the code reserved for renewable technologies.

3) You might see that Fuel Cells and Solar have been working together for several years to extend our tax credits. We have introduced together bills in both the House and the Senate since 2006 because BOTH sides felt it was advantageous to work together to extend the credits. If you’d like I can refer you to individuals at SEIA to make sure we evil fuel cell types are mis-representing anything. Happy to do it!

4) Various folks on Capitol Hill and in the Media have “shorthanded” the bills before Congress to extend clean energy tax credits by calling them “renewable tax credits’ but more often “credits for wind and solar”. Believe me, we would LOVE to be mentioned more often, but we’re just not the big guy on the block. We’re OK with that. Oh, and so is the solar trade association. There are others who feel similarly marginalized: Efficiency tax credits, even some renewables like geothermal who are in the PTC but get overshadowed by wind.

5) We in the fuel cell industry have NEVER been against someone elses credits — we’re team players. Rather, we want to make sure our fuel cell credit is extended. And David, if fuel cells aren’t worth using, no one will buy them and use the credit. So nothing lost, right? Chill

Those for which there is informed consensus that they really address the problems society wants to solve.

“fuel cells have the ability to run off of renewable generated hydrogen”

If you are talking about methane from waste water treatment plants or landfills, fine, although there doesn’t appear to be enough of that renewable gas around to make much of a difference.

If you are talking about hydrogen released from water through electrolysis using renewably generated electricity, then we are better off using that electricity directly without wasting a big percentage of it converting it into hydrogen and then converting the hydrogen back into electricity.

Think about it. The demand for electricity to run air conditioners is highest at the same time the sun shines brightest and the wind blows hardest. Why not run those ACs directly on the solar and wind power? Why waste any of that power messing around with hydrogen? (Keep in mind that it will be decades before we have built enough renewable generation capacity that we can’t use it all in real time.)

“a number of states currently list fuels cells as renewables, regardless of the feedstock they use”

I am well aware of this. I think it is a highly misleading fiction. I think Connecticut did it because the fuel cell lobby is especially strong in Connecticut. I think that it is more about jobs in CT than it is about renewable energy.

“I don’t think the ITC bill before congress has EVER been labeled as a renewable-only energy package”

The provisions for FCs always seem to be lumped in with provisions for wind and solar. That’s why the FC credit is set to expire at the same time as the wind and solar credits.

“I wish you would be as vocal about the oil and gas tax incentives as you are about the fuel cell tax credit.”

I think that the credits for gas and oil are a total ripoff. The oil companies don’t even pay the royalties that they are supposed to pay.

But there are many people arguing against oil and gas incentives in many places. The demands I see for fuel cell incentives here compel me to respond here.

Have HEVs ever been lumped in with renewables?
Has a tax credit for HEVs ever appeared in the same bill as a credit for renewables?
Has anyone ever even pretended that there is anything inherently renewable about an HEV?

Apples and oranges.

Is that the best response you have to my point?

So what types of products should receive incentives, and what shouldn’t?

I would also remind you that anyone lobbying can be considered a “special interest”, including the renewable energy community.

Also, fuel cells have the ability to run off of renewable generated hydrogen. In fact a number of states currently list fuels cells as renewables, regardless of the feedstock they use.

Finally, I don’t think the ITC bill before congress has EVER been labeled as a renewable-only energy package. I wish you would be as vocal about the oil and gas tax incentives as you are about the fuel cell tax credit.

My position is that fuel cells should not be lumped into legislation supporting true renewables just because those with a special interest in FCs want them there.

The better the political class and the general public understand what “renewable” really means, the better decisions society will make and the better off we will all be in the long run.

Lumping FCs in with “renewables” clouds the issues to no one’s benefit, except maybe those with a special interest in FCs.

As you know, the tax code is frequently used to support a number of worthwhile objectives. If you look at the history of the ITC, it was initially used to rehabilitate historic property. Thanks to Congress, the ITC now covers: ‘any depreciable or amortizable property that qualifies for the rehabilitation credit, energy credit, qualifying advanced coal project credit, or qualifying gasification project credit’… So if your position is that we shouldn’t incentivize non-renewable projects, you should lobby to get rid of the tax credit for Hybrid Vehicles.

Why should ITCs for fuel cells be lumped in with ITCs for true renewable energy technologies like wind, solar, geothermal?